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+--- Thread: Which Maps to Retire? (/showthread.php?tid=1637)
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - GreatGonzales - 02-05-2013 05:53 AM
(02-05-2013 05:43 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: I think long nice shold be removed not for being unbalanced but for being so boring. There is very little diversity in gameplay at higher levels of play (most players at this lever rarely go for the top 2 wit spaces) and It always comes down to whoever kills the sniper first, whoever gets their special into the game first. The open space at the top can rarely be utalised with most games based around the bottom or hugging the two walls. Also that middle bit almost never has any purpose (the path).
I actually think a new trend for long nine is turtling...at least for high level. I am in a game with Szei that is about to reach turn 100. And another with el*tabasco which is turtle-tastic.
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - EkoFox - 02-05-2013 06:03 AM
I feel Foundry is pretty unfair to P2 as well. It seems very easy for me to win as P1 and very difficult to win as P2.
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - Necrocat219 - 02-05-2013 06:15 AM
(02-05-2013 05:51 AM)connor34911 Wrote:(02-05-2013 05:43 AM)Necrocat219 Wrote: I think long nice shold be removed not for being unbalanced but for being so boring. There is very little diversity in gameplay at higher levels of play (most players at this lever rarely go for the top 2 wit spaces) and It always comes down to whoever kills the sniper first, whoever gets their special into the game first. The open space at the top can rarely be utalised with most games based around the bottom or hugging the two walls. Also that middle bit almost never has any purpose (the path).
Maybe foundry and Peekaboo but I have a lot of fun on those maps, especially peekaboo
You killed my sniper first and I still won
Also I love that map.
XD that's a one off! And awwh, maybe it's just me but every other map seems to have a much larger pool of varied play.
And yeah... I can't seem to get by a game which doesn't end up with a lucky win due to fog, an unlucky loss due to a slip up or a really long turtling game. Also the map messes with my usual calculations of efficiency with how soliders move around the top half XD although that's nothing bad at all
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - TheGoldenGriffin - 02-05-2013 07:16 AM
I love all the maps. Why not just add the new maps without deleting the others?
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - TheQwertiest - 02-05-2013 07:19 AM
(02-05-2013 07:16 AM)TheGoldenGriffin Wrote: I love all the maps. Why not just add the new maps without deleting the others?
its one of the options.
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - CombatEX - 02-05-2013 07:25 AM
This is such great news. Thank you so much OML! I still think that maps are one of the critical points when it comes to balance. To answer your question GG, that's why I think some maps should be removed. This is the next closest thing to a veto system like in Starcraft (having the community vote).
It bugs me that quite a lot of people don't want any maps rotated out. These maps will still be available for tournaments and friendly matches! It's better to have a smaller number of maps for competitive league though so we can refine and really develop matchups on these maps. Also we can get rid of broken and/or boring maps like Peekaboo. But, if you still want to play Peekaboo in a tournament you'd still be free to do so (hey new tournament idea, "Peekaboo, Clash of the Scallywags Tourney")
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - GreatGonzales - 02-05-2013 07:33 AM
My thing is, with a game like this, why not have 50 different maps. I guess it's hard to balance that many maps, but I think the OMC has demonstrated that there are a wealth of great ideas out there. Why not add more maps and let us play on them! I am more interested in adding new maps than removing current maps, even the broken(ish) ones.
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - burnodrod - 02-05-2013 07:37 AM
Maybe it's better to look at the real stat and get rid of the unbalanced maps on which P2 often lose to P1?
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - CombatEX - 02-05-2013 07:41 AM
(02-05-2013 07:33 AM)GreatGonzales Wrote: My thing is, with a game like this, why not have 50 different maps. I guess it's hard to balance that many maps, but I think the OMC has demonstrated that there are a wealth of great ideas out there. Why not add more maps and let us play on them! I am more interested in adding new maps than removing current maps, even the broken(ish) ones.
Because we aren't removing them, just from league. 50 league maps would be terrible. As I said above*, I'd rather see matchups and general strategy evolve to a high level on ~8 maps in league than 50 maps where no one really knows what they are doing until a year later. But then by that time since we just keep adding maps there are 100 maps!
I think it's great to have 50 maps to choose from for tournaments and friendlies, but in league it's better to have a relatively small number for players to really focus on.
(02-05-2013 07:37 AM)burnodrod Wrote: Maybe it's better to look at the real stat and get rid of the unbalanced maps on which P2 often lose to P1?
I agree that this would be preferable. Though I would prioritize maps with bad matchups (like 70-30 in favor of a particular team) than P1 vs P2 since I think that this is relatively small now. It would also be nice to just fix some of the maps that have problems in matchup or game pace instead of necessarily removing them.
*Oops, I see that I ninja edited my post while you were typing your response so you didn't see
RE: Which Maps to Retire? - GreatGonzales - 02-05-2013 08:01 AM
(02-05-2013 07:41 AM)CombatEX Wrote: Because we aren't removing them, just from league. 50 league maps would be terrible. As I said above*, I'd rather see matchups and general strategy evolve to a high level on ~8 maps in league than 50 maps where no one really knows what they are doing until a year later. But then by that time since we just keep adding maps there are 100 maps!
I think it's great to have 50 maps to choose from for tournaments and friendlies, but in league it's better to have a relatively small number for players to really focus on.
I see that side of the argument. But the other side is more play variety. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was most excited for the two new maps to be in league cirulation with the veggienaut update. I guess 50 is too much, you're right. But I also think we could have more than 8. I'd love 16!
But you're definitely right about not feeling like you know what you're doing on a new map. I may be ST, but I only started to feel like I "understood" this game relatively recently.