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Bombshell Turtling - Balancing Suggestion
10-08-2012, 06:46 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2012 06:53 AM by CombatEX.)
Post: #26
RE: Bombshell Turtling - Balancing Suggestion
Glad you didn't take it personally Ravernoth. =) I will say that I do like your idea the best (2 wits for the attack) out of all the changes proposed as this doesn't change the flavor of the bombshell (which I quite like how it is), just the efficiency. But yes, as you conceded, we really should wait for more evidence that a change is truly needed before making one. ^^

I think Alvendor brings up many good points. I still think ultimately map balancing (or a map editor for players to create balanced maps to take the burden of OML after an initial investment of making it) would be the best step towards making Outwitters a more balanced and competitive game. However, I likewise understand that this initial investment is a time consuming one. Well, hopefully in the far future. If we look at SC2 we can see just how useful the map editor has been. In fact, even better, look at SC:Brood War. Blizzard maps were terrible for the most part and I don't hesitate to say SC:BW wouldn't have been half as competitive without dedicated Korean map-making teams who created hundred of highly balanced and interesting maps to play on. But again, OML unfortunately doesn't have the resources of a company like Blizzard.

Changing a unit both improves balance on some maps but worsens it on others for a questionable net gain.
Changing a map can only improve balance on that particular map assuming the balance is done correctly.

Making a unit change affects all maps, even maps that are already balanced, and as a result can worsen balance on some maps even if it improves balance on others. That's why specific map balance changes are ultimately better for balancing.

Going with this idea that OML balancing maps or outsourcing map balancing to the player base is likely not viable at the moment, team match-ups will likewise never be balanced (especially with a fourth team on the way, three teams is hard enough =P). However, in this case we need to consider what Alvendor brought up which is that even something like 30/70 across various maps would be okay (really I'd like something more like 40/60 which is still pretty bad by SC2 standards).

Poorly worded example of this issue >.<
Unfortunately, if bombshells are really that much better on small maps, nerfing them on say peekaboo where the have a 80/20* win-rate would also make them worse on a map like sweetie plains where they have a 40/60* win-rate. Then, after the change, they would be more balanced on peekaboo, but will also be less balanced as they will be more underpowered on sweetie plains. Again, these stats are just made up, but the point is there. The game probably isn't very balanced between maps so nerfing or buffing teams may improve balance in one area while worsening it in another. I think we're a long way off from making beneficial balance changes as in order to do so we need proper map and match-up data, and then either a map editor or careful consideration of how to improve balance overall since every change will inherently have both a component of worsening and betterment. In order to make a beneficial change we therefore need to have data. To go with this however is Alvendor's point that the P2 8 wit change will play a huge role in the stats, so ultimately we should wait until after the next patch goes live before revisiting this topic.

*making this up as an example, it's not really like this

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RE: Bombshell Turtling - Balancing Suggestion - CombatEX - 10-08-2012 06:46 AM

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